By "possible" I mean without fear of being labeled as Hamas.
Any good answer to this also has to answer the following:
"Is it possible for German citizens to act in their own self defense during the invasion of Berlin in 1945?"
Of course, if one of the invading Allied armies is about to mistakenly blow up a refuge where innocent people are hiding, morally you would be justified in trying to save the people. But you should also admit that doing so would look a LOT like acting in concert with a very bad group who is not going to make it, and that anyone still able to, would be better off surrendering ASAP.
Groups that are destined to lose, should lose as quickly as possible.
Yes lots of civilians died in the invasion of Berlin. But there's no way that the allies would have ceasefired when the size of Axis-controlled territory in Germany was say 10sq miles.
We were definitely going to finish taking over the territory. Thats the situation now. The people there have many supposed allies who have tons of money. If they are true allies, take the people. The rest of the world has no problem with the Palestinians getting good jobs and making their lives work; there is no inherent disagreement with them, as can be seen by how all the rest who have already left aren't being persecuted as long as they do normal things like get jobs, have families, and not keep trying to attack Jewish people.
The last century has seen nation-states seize a monopoly on violence, which I think has generally proven to be better than what came before it.
Parts of Afghanistan are still in basically pre-modern times with tribal rulers. If somebody in Afghanistan tried to violently prevent the US invasion, we killed them, regardless of whether they were actually part of the state apparatus of the Taliban, who we really had a quarrel with. That's sort of how things work.
@SemioticRivalry What does the tribal element matter? And in Afghanistan many deaths were caused by bombings and not by US forces. Havenât seen a lot of that in Gaza. Also letâs not forget about the âmowing the grassâ policy.
@SaadiaCarbis Thank you for bringing up the West Bank, where the closest thing to a terrorist is actually the Israeli settlers.
@BTE Haha lol yeah because the settlers there attack people? I mean, come on. There are legitimate criticisms you can make of the settlers but violence/ terrorism isnât one of them.
@SaadiaCarbis They literally run people out of their homes and then move into them. They have been doing it for decades despite promising not to.
@SaadiaCarbis Did you even read the links I posted, they werenât even all from after 10/7. Yes the west bank settlers in particular are extreme violent. You would think they lived in Chicago or something LOL!!
@BTE This is just a lie. They build in the desert where nobody lives. Whatever man, Iâm not going to engage any further. You keep reading your news sources. I used to live in a âsettlementâ, so I know that life there is nothing like you think it is.
@SaadiaCarbis Oh you lived there, shit I suppose you arenât biased at all then. And are you familiar with the nakba? Or the Cave of the Patriach massacre??
@admissions And not be killed by the IDF without recourse due to the fact that the IDF clearly thinks anything and everything they do in Gaza can be justified by "self-defense". If the IDF is correct, civilians in Gaza are unable to defend themselves in any meaningful sense because if they even try they have essentially joined Hamas and become "legitimate" targets in the eyes of not only the IDF but also the US and many others.
@BTE Do you mean like if IDF soldiers commit a war crime (rape, etc.)? A civilian in a war zone has no practical recourse against that obviously, but I am pretty certain that neither the IDF as a whole nor the USA would condone such acts.
@admissions As of today the IDF is shooting first and asking questions later. Additionally, many Israeli political leaders have said publicly there is no such thing as an "innocent civilian" in Gaza. Arguably making such statements amounts to an acknowledgement, even endorsement, of ongoing war crimes being committed by the IDF.
@BTE I'm laughing at the idea of calling your OWN Manifold poll the "most important question..."
This might be the most self-aggrandizing Manifold comment I've seen since 10/7